Separation of the Wheat from the Tares

 

http://denversnuffer.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Plural-Marriage.pdf

Why the church and fundamentalism has been out of order since Joseph Smith... only the hard hearted and prideful will fail to give it all a proper hearing. Hope that isn't the case with any of the people I know or are acquainted with. Even the mock up or type and shadow of the real thing that was in the church (The Head Patriarch) came to an end. Read the entire article linked to above.

Quoting from the pdf posted above:

"Now even the imitation of it has come to an end, because there is no perpetuation “in honorable remembrance” of the descendants of Hyrum Smith124 occupying the office of Patriar...ch to the Church. There have been many signs given by God that He was about to do something new from the time of the death of Joseph Smith till today. All that was left at the end was for a witness to be appointed, to come to declare, “Now it has come to an end.” In the last talked in the 10 lecture series I said, the witness has now come, and I am he. It has come to an end with something new now begun. One of the signs of it having come to an end was the passing of Eldred Smith. There are many other signs given if you look for them. You can see them all along the way, from the condemnation in 1832, to the expulsion from Missouri, the forced exodus from Nauvoo, the suffering during and following the exodus, the afflictions, judgments and wrath of God at the Saints, their pride, lying, deceit, hypocrisy, murders, priestcrafts, and whoredoms (as Christ foretold), inquisitorial abuse of the population129 once isolated from the US, mass-murders, contradictions in “fundamental” teachings, changes to the ordinances including the temple rites, quest for popularity and centrally-controlled, tightly correlated rejection of teachings—the history of the LDS Church has been a long, downward path. It has walked away from the light, and increasingly embraced darkness. Its members are now ruled by traditions that contradict the scriptures and commandments of God. They are asleep and cannot be awakened. God will now do something new and leave them to make their own way. 

  Emma Smith, Sidney Rigdon and William Marks said without Joseph Smith there was no church. They were right. As soon as Joseph Smith was out of the picture there was a complete overthrow of the church by the quorum of the 12. The quorum of the 12 substituted themselves in the place of the equal distribution of power in the church established by revelation."

Mormon Fundamentalists

 

The Usual Response From the Fundamentalist Minded LDS World

I know, I know... it is hard to hear some of the negative history that some within the "new movement" are sharing about Presidents Brigham Young and John Taylor. Just let me say, I know exactly how you feel. I was once in your shoes back in 2009.

I had spent a couple years researching "greater things" that the church use to live and do. That included Joseph Smith's history, church history and fundamentalist history. I even spent a couple years trying to find a priesthood group who might hold higher priesthood to live higher things. I even thought to be a part of the AUB in 2009, though I knew they too were "out of order" in the connection with heaven among their leadership (I had already seen that disconnect within mainstream Mormonism for over a century, and I was so sad to find other groups claiming that their Priesthood leaders have "all the keys", even more than the church held... only to find that they too suffer from that usual silence from heaven).

My LDS mainstream family and friends were alienating their hearts from me, for me simply trying to find out what happened with our history. I was searching church and fundamentalist histories. I was visiting different groups and places. Investigating all the different forms of Mormonism found in our day. After all, in our mainstream Mormon mindset, those kinds of members who seek, search, knock and ponder deeply... "go off the deep end", or become "apostate", so we falsely judge at times. The only people then welcoming me with open arms were fundamentalist friends. But my search there also ended up not yielding the fruits I was looking for. At this time I did know that no one was a Prophet quite like Joseph Smith was (seriously, look at his fruits), but I at least thought that Brigham and John Taylor were at least close to it. In late 2009 I was told by some new friends I met at Avraham Gileadi classes about Denver Snuffer. I had his first book setting on my shelf. I hadn't read it yet. I went home to begin. I read a few of his books. I began reading his blog. I commented a lot on his blog. I started contacting him via email early in 2010.

I had began to understand that Snuffer saw things being "out of order" clear back to the death of Joseph Smith and Hyrum. He told me there was a break (I can publicly say what he said privately in 2010, because he just declared it publicly in his plural marriage talk in 2015). But up to this point in my journey, I enjoyed some of the historical writings from and about Brigham Young and John Taylor. I mean, Pres Taylor was a stalwart type of man who would stand up for what he thought was true and right, no matter what. He said he would not give up on plural marriage being lived within the church, but that another President would have to do that. He sacrificed and suffered much to do so. Pres. Woodruff said he would never give up on it as well, at least at first. Then later he gives the manifesto as a way to deceptively make the government think that they had given up on it. If you have read Michael Quin's history on that topic: http://www.lds-mormon.com/quinn_polygamy.shtml  - you will soon realize that press release, sometimes considered a "revelation" in mainstream Mormonism, was a red herring... a way to dishonestly try to get Utah territory to become a part of the United States, while still secretly continuing to live "their religion". The U.S. government wanted the Mormons to give up on plural marriage before giving them statehood. The leadership of the Mormons did not want to give up on something that Pres Young had begun within the church as a whole, and started teaching was a mandatory thing to become "one of the Sons of God" or to get into the highest degree of the celestial kingdom. Well, that press release was not in their minds to honor. In actuality, if you read the first manifesto, it really says they would stop doing plural marriages within the confines of the USA (or Utah territory they wanted to be a part of it). The leadership and others kept taking new wives after 1890. But they would have marriages performed secretly or outside the USA. They tried to "meet in the middle". But essentially, it was dishonest and deceptive to do what they did. That is why Pres. J.F. Smith had to issue another manifesto in 1906. There were a few more plural marriages that took place with church leadership approval even after that.

So here we are in 2015. Denver Snuffer and many within the LDS Remnant Community or the "new movement" (or rather the continuation of the restoration that began with Joseph Smith) that is occurring, are now saying that things have been out of order since 1844. I just recently had someone say to me (and I've been told the same before) something to the effect that: I can't accept or be a part of the LDS Remnant, because I don't like what they say about Brigham Young and John Taylor. Hence, the writing of this post.

But what does Snuffer and many within the new movement actually state? I think we allow Brigham Young to speak for himself. We discuss some of the negative history about Brigham's life that most do not want to hear, and we let others come to their own conclusion on the matter. But, you have to actually do some reading and research. What did he do as church President and Politician? What did he think? What were some things Brigham didn't understand, that he should have, if he held the keys to get answers to questions? Why was there a period of 3 years of confusion after the death of Joseph Smith? Have you read Andrew Ehat's BYU thesis paper on that matter yet? If not, you should stop and read it now: http://www.scribd.com/doc/35205295/Joseph-Smith-s-Introduction-of-Temple-Ordinances-and-the-1844-Mormon-Succession-Question-by-Andrew-Ehat#scribd

Let Brigham speak for himself:
"I am not a prophet, nor the son of a prophet…” The Office Journal of Brigham Young, 1858-1863, Book D (Hanna, UT: Collier’s Publishing Co., 2006),

Journal of Discourses, 5:177
"I do not profess to be a Prophet. I never called myself so; but I actually believe I am, because people are all the time telling me that I am."

"I am not going to interpret dreams; for I don’t profess to be such a Prophet as were Joseph Smith and Daniel; but I am a Yankee guesser;” Brigham Young, Sermon, July 26, 1857, JD 5:77.

"I have never particularly desired any man to testify publicly that I am a Prophet; nevertheless, if any man feels joy, in doing this, he shall be blest in it. I have never said that I am not a Prophet; but, if I am not, one thing is certain, I have been very profitable to this people.” Brigham Young, Sermon, October, 7, 1864, JD 10:339.

 "A person was mentioned to-day who did not believe that Brigham Young was a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator. I wish to ask every member of this whole community, if they ever heard him profess to be a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, as Joseph Smith was? . . . Who ordained me to be First President of this Church on earth? I answer, It is the choice of this people, and that is sufficient." Journal of Discourses, 6:320

  "You are now without a prophet present with you in the flesh to guide you; but you are not without apostles . . ." Times and Seasons, 5:618

The brethren testify that brother Brigham is brother Joseph's legal successor. You never heard me say so. I say that I am a good hand to keep the dogs and wolves out of the flock. I do not care a groat who rises up. I do not think anything about being Joseph's successor. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:69.)

Another's retelling of what Brigham told her:
"Later near the end of his life, Susa Young Gates recorded that when asked if he had ever seen the Savior, Brigham responded that he hadn’t, and that he didn’t expect to until he died." Note, 1885, Susa Young Gates Collection, Box 11, Folder 1, Subfolder 1, Utah State Archives, Salt Lake City.

Mary Rollins Lightner, one of Joseph’s wives, wrote about her confrontation with an Angel. She remembered a bit of a conflict with Brigham in the waning days of Nauvoo and wrote that “he Said he would give anything to have seen what I had.”  Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner, Autobiography, in B. Carmon Hardy, ed., Doing the Works of Abraham: Mormon Polygamy: It’s Origin, Practice, and Demise (Norman, OK: Arthur H. Clark Co., 2007), 48.

By their fruits?

"Let me suppose a case. Suppose you found your brother in bed with your wife, and put a javelin through both of them, you would be justified, and they would atone for their sins, and be received into the kingdom of God. I would at once do so in such a case; and under such circumstances, I have no wife whom I love so well that I would not put a javelin through her heart, and I would do it with clean hands.” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, pg. 247, 1856)

"…They are the old hardened sinners, and are almost—if not altogether—past improvement, and are full of hell, and my prayer is that God's indignation may rest upon them, and that He will curse them from the crown of their heads to the soles of their feet. I say, that there are men and women that I would advise to go to the President immediately, and ask him to appoint a committee to attend to their case; and then let a place be selected, and let that committee shed their blood… I would ask how many covenant breakers there are in this city and in this kingdom. I believe that there are a great many; and if they are covenant breakers we need a place designated, where we can shed their blood… They are a perfect nuisance, and I want them cut off, and the sooner it is done the better.” (J.M. Grant, First Presidency, Journal of Discourses vol. 4: 219-220 Sept. 21,1856 SLC, Utah)"

Ok, so you get the picture. Above is what Brigham Young said about himself. There are a couple quotes of what others said Brigham stated to them. If you want to make more of Brigham than what he himself said of himself, that is your prerogative I suppose.

So, I came across quotes like these on my own. I knew none of the LDS Presidents after Joseph were prophets like he was. Then in 2012, Snuffer wrote this for a sunstone presentation. It is definitely worth the read. Full of quotes and history of the time Brigham Young was at the head of the church and territory: http://denversnuffer.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/BrighamYoungsTelestialKingdomRevised.pdf

In 2012, Denver published Passing the Heavenly Gift (search on Amazon.com), which contains some more hard to hear history that occurred under Brigham's  leadership. You can say that I had a very hard time dealing with some of this history, as I once had thought that "the break" or that things were "out of order" since 1890, after Pres. Taylor.


Another good read about why things are out of order since Joseph, and where Denver states the break is the break in the Patriarchal Order that God was trying to restore with Joseph Smith, read Denver's Plural Marriage talk here: http://denversnuffer.com/wp/download/Plural_Marriage.mp3.zip

Be sure to take note of Brigham's dream about Joseph Smith in Denver's talk above. Brigham misunderstood the Law Of Adoption as a whole. Others were asking him what to do with that principle. Brigham has a dream of meeting Joseph Smith. In that dream Brigham ask's Joseph what to do, and Joseph doesn't answer his question, but just says to just follow the spirit. Here Brigham has a question. He doesn't know what to say on it. Even in his dream, and let's suppose it is inspired, then Joseph Smith is avoiding answering his question, precisely because not even Brigham Young is on par enough to receive the answer.

Also consider the history about Brigham making plural marriage a public church requirement. Remember, Joseph Smith was in fact sealing wives to himself (though we have no proof of him having relations that produced offspring with his sealed plural wives), and allowing very few others to live it as well. It was for a tight knit group within the church, but not a church wide thing to live in Joseph's day. If God actually wanted them to keep this going within the church, wouldn't He have made a way for their escape, for it to remain? Wouldn't God had protected their "religious right" and kept it in the church if it was as important as Brigham stated?

Though this history is hard to read or hear, it is necessary to understand why things have been out of order since Joseph Smith, Jr.

Ok, what about Pres. Taylor and Woodruff?

Well, if things were out of order since Joseph left the church to themselves, maybe it got back in order somewhere after Brigham? I wish that was the case.

Now, didn't the Lord state that He would fight their battles, if they were in the right way? Pres. Taylor spent a lot of time defending this principle. The familiar picture of him and the presidency in jailbird stripes comes to mind. The feds were threatening to not give them statehood. Taylor stood up for what he thought was right. He never gave in to their "enemies".

At first, Pres. Woodruff gives a couple revelations saying that they should never give up on this principle. Later we here him attending a meeting at the Bohemian Grove.  Probably invited their by other elite. You can search that for yourself, it is still going on today in CA. Presidents and wealthy still attend it. They don't know what their ritual is actually teaching them, but they do participate. Alex Jones exposed it all on youtube and you can search it there. Woodruff at first said they would never give up on it. But the USA pressured him and the other leaders enough to make them afraid and to give in to that manipulative pressure. They were afraid of having their new buildings and new temples taken away from them by the feds if they did not give it up. So they try to fake it, hoping they can get their statehood and openly live plural marriage again later. The plan didn't work. Plural marriage was later completely removed from the church and it has never been brought back since. That same church began to reject members who didn't want to give it up just like the leaders had formerly done, and after being taught for decades that is was required for exaltation. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Now ask yourself, why would God allow this to be removed from the Church, if Pres. Woodruff or Pres. J.F. Smith held the keys? Didn't the Lord declare that He would fight their battles? Why did Pres. Brigham Young have to ponder and the have a dream were Joseph wouldn't even answer him there? If our President's automatically get to hold "the Keys", what are they? Pres. Taylor tried to put together a "Book of Keys", trying to figure out what they are. Do they magically get them because we sustain them as our Priesthood Presidents? What about the key to ask and receive answers? Surely they were asking, and surely they were not receiving like the Prophet Joseph did, or like the many that fill our scriptures. It looks to me that the Lord never wanted to keep plural marriage alive, let alone make it a church requirement for highest exaltation. If there was a break, and men go on claiming to hold all the keys that Joseph held, while also understanding that they are not even close to being connected with God like he was... would God want this not very-well understood principle made as a church wide program? Could it be that God actually wanted it to end the way it was being practiced, and used the government to eradicate before more of a mess could be made?

Keep looking into church history after the manifestos. Keep looking into Mormon fundamentalist history since short creek. Things do not get any better. The whole thing just gets more confusing. More division is the usual course to so much confusion, being tossed to and fro. You have the plural marriage confusion. You have current LDS leaders going against what Pres. Brigham Young said about blacks never be able to hold priesthood, and the current leadership saying that they do not accept anyone who says such things. We have continued changes, doctrines and removals in LDS temple ordinances. Here we are today, confusion still reigns, while so many still claim to hold the only valid all powerful Keys over any other LDS group.

So, if you have read all of these statements from history, and read all of the articles linked to in this blog post... has your view changed? Can you now consider what some of us have already considered, and see what we see? If not, please do some more research and praying on the matter and get back with me:)


Denver Snuffer explains some good things on priesthood, plural marriage and the Patriarchal Order in his plural marriage talk linked to above (and his blog and in Passing the Heavenly Gift). This topic has been quite controversial and messy since Joseph Smith... but there is an answer as to why things have been out or order and so confusing. There is always an explanation, a reason. Our great Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (and others) lived plurality and did raise children through all of their wives. Joseph Smith did state that he intended to bring back all that the priesthood of the past had, as part of the restoration of all things. Surely an interesting topic that has plagued Mormonism, Judaism and others since it was lived by those in our Old Testament.


I love the Lord. I love what He was trying to restore with Joseph Smith and prophets in our scriptures. Though my journey was mentally painful at times, the answers did come. I was patient. I sought the truth above my own pre-conceived understandings. I was and still am, a true seeker of truth. I know the Lord can come through for you and answer any question you may have. It may take some time, some underlying necessary fore knowledge, and then some more time and explanation... but seek and you shall find.

So, consider and then get back with me. Let me know when we can setup your baptism to show your faith in the continued work of the Father in our day, ok? :)

To the truth and nothing but,

What Is Necessary

 The Book Of Mormon  is necessary to help prepare YOU for the coming restoration. It helps us understand that the Lord’s words in bible prophecies were partially fulfilled when ministering to other scattered tribes of IsraEL (lots of meaning in this word... see Christ’s comments about dogs and not healing the woman of a different lineage, but did so anyway with her continued plea and comment about dogs eating crumbs). The BOM helps us realize that the full restorative work of the Father is not full and there is more to come, but it also helps us connect with the Lord like the examples found within, in any day or circumstance. That is necessary. The connecting part, whether you have just the writings of Moses, or whether you have tons more like the LDS church has had for nearly two centuries. The BOM is another witness, along side the bible, that in the last days (now!), the work of the Father would include a restoration of the true Christian Gospel and a gathering of a final remnant of descendants into places of refuge and finally into Zion for the start of the millenial era, would occur before the wrapping up of this creation period.

 

Do we need the Book of Mormon?

 

Lehi connected with the Savior direct, with just the help from Isaiah and previous prophets alone. He was one of the many, true connected prophets, like Jeremiah (in the bible) who existed at the same time Lehi did. Only a portion of the bible records Lehi held in 580bc. I would think that anyone interested in what God has done with mankind in the past, would want to read all prophetic records, to look for the pattern of how men connected with heaven direct, and how to avoid the same failures of the past. Connecting with God or re-connecting, individually is absolutely necessary. I suppose the LDS and even the awakening LDS Remnant might could have more angelic ministrations... but with the amount of scripture we do have, and the mortal angelic ministers that are among us today, are enough to get us started in the right path. What matters is the path to Christ and Him working with you directly. Not the angelic mortals(past mortals and present) or angels from beyond the veil who only share with you truths that point in the right direction.

 

I would venture to say that nearly anyone, anywhere, could connect with God, get priesthood confirmed from on high (the "power" in that priesthood depends on how good your connection is with the Father and Son and HG), even without being ordained to aaronic ph by a man or angel or having an lds or remnant baptism. After all, isn’t lesser (Aaronic or Levitical) priesthood authority a condemnatory priesthood, for those who have not the higher, those who failed to get and maintain it after being offered? Compare the mainstream LDS church of today with Israel of old after Moses. Someone with high priesthood (and the necessary actual word of the Lord direction and allowance) could then baptize (himself or others, really a show of faith to men and God that we want to get what that physical mortal ordinance symbolicly represents) and do what ever the Lord directs him or her to do.

"Holy" Priesthood?

Denver Snuffer has stated in the books {see the First 3 Words paper and Ephraim talk by Denver Snuffer}, (as he points out hints in the scriptures), some have qualified in a probational period and obtained priesthood, the one real priesthood, from before this life. It just needs re-activated by the baptism of fire (born again into the fold or Church of Christ) and true revelation from the one who stands at that gate. This is required for greater things (referring to what is symbolicly shown in LDS first and second endowment ceremonies for those who know about such things).

 

Many are called or given this Holy Priesthood from before this life (because of their choosing the right path by faith before), but few are chosen, or rather come to have it re-confirmed and re-activated here. See Alma 13 and JST Gen 14. All of them are called to seek their calling and election (and associated promises) and coming into the presence of the Son and then the Father while in mortality, if not obtained "before", or reconfirmed in this life if they did. Maybe some obtained C&E and/or the Second Comforter actual face to face visitations before this life also and just need to obtain more and help others. Maybe some have obtained more already in this life (“there are those of you who have your calling and elections made sure... doubt not the word of God” – DS, Ephraim talk). Likely those who obtained such great things are among the noble and great. Are there an "even more noble and great" who come back again (the Angels seek them out and prepare them for that mission) to perform missions to help lift other unknowing children of EL to be elevated? Christ, a Son of God, the Savior of all, One who had greater things than us all, had done a greater but similar mortal mission. Pick up your cross and follow the prototype of the saved man? Some things take more than one probation. Some are on missions, but still ascending into higher stations. Regardless of our what standing we hold (and others), we must be progressing upwards and help others do the same.

 

“Ye are gods." "The Kingdom of God is within you.” -Christ told those He was ministering to, and they were confused. What? Gods in the making? In the process and can become such? People fore-ordained before the world was to become such? People who come again to obtain that which they might not have yet obtained before this life? Children of the Fathers before us, who formerly became adopted "Sons/Daughters of God" (who obtained promises that their future seed/children would one day be a part of the latter day remnant who is gathered into Zion), or became as the gods meaning they would have eternal lives like them and God sees them as in eternity now? Are some who come into this mortality, on an even higher noble and great standing, and come to perform a grand mission? Surely, those meek enough to qualify to have that revelation on where they stand, never want to accept what they held and hold. Either way, behave as if we do and don’t have that standing as others.

If you realize just how far you progressed before this life (God views us in eternity, in the now), especially many within the church and remnant, or those coming across "this gospel" (the correct truths and fullness of it)... how great the weight when you realize what you could lose, if you don’t shake free of any mortal problems obtained in this life, and rise up and elevate others. If you want a promise of eternal life (or to keep it), then assist others to obtain such and be exalted in the process of assisting heaven their work and glory. But do it in the right way, or be subject to impeding the way... as our scriptures show so many failures, and as our modern organized religions of today have shown.

Add this all to the fact that the division so many LDS and other fellow Christian believers have talked about one day occurring, is beginning. Is it another “war in heaven” now beginning (a time to get on the right side of the fence and choose Christ's individual come to Him direct teachings, over telestial, idolatrous rely on the teachings of priesthood leaders) before a coming cleansing and millenial (Adam/Eve type) era. Gods then setting foot on this world again. Then another fall (just think, Adam lived almost 1,000 years... a millennial period). "A new world?" Creation periods or "worlds".... without end?

 

This is serious stuff. I hope those reading this take it so. Look out into the world, and SEE, just who are saying follow and connect with Christ(terrestrial level) over the vain telestial teachings of men (follow the mortal church leader and he will take you safely there). Just who are fighting against the work of the Father now beginning and fighting against a true Zion, who otherwise should not be and think that "all is well"? Is your priestly leader or pastor involved in that, even if they don't really realize it or what they are doing?


Upon my house shall it begin... we can see why. Where much was given and offered to the gentile (also descendents of Israel) people in the 1800's, and then much is given and offered again, a second time in our time... much is required, and much will be lost if not received before it is too late. Amos 3:7 - surely God will not do it, unless He sends His prophets or messengers to warn them first. Then it comes... just as biblical and book of Mormon prophets showed happened to their people, and as they saw would happen in the last days.

The Remnant Gathering

 

I am sure you have heard the news, if not you will hear plenty of it soon enough. The Remnant Gatherings of like minded believers has begun!

This is in preparation of the coming of Zion! The one that nearly all the prophets have spoken on in the last days, that would usher in the mellenium!


The Lord has performed a part of His "strange act" that I mentioned previously. On Sep 9, 2014, Denver Snuffer publicly declared that the Lord has moved forward without the LDS church leaders, to perform the prophesied work of the last days. In fact, Denver declared that because of continued abuse and error (and not repenting of it when given the chance), and removing a man who personally knows the Lord, that on April 14, 2014, the Lord removed the remaining priesthood held by them.


Be sure to read Denver's Phoenix talk here (when it is posted): http://www.scribd.com/DCSnuffer


If you need help finding a local group of like minded believers to join with, send me an email: restoredtruths@gmail.com


There will be no costly church buildings erected (more money for the poor among us). There will be no one above the other. You can still be a part of the LDS or fundamentalist group you are a part of if you like. There will be authorized ordinances such as conferring Aaronic Priesthood, Baptism and Sacrament still taking place, but they are servants, not your leaders. The local groups must sustain a person to perform or receive ordinances in the group setting. Records will be kept for storing in the future temple. Tithing will be gathered and used to help one another, not to build up Babylon or your portfolio. No one will be prevented from taking the Sacrament. Everything in a group will be done by common consent, as equals. A future gathering and the final Zion temple will come where the Lord Himself can meet with us.


EXCITING TIMES! But extremely serious times as well. If we bring in the having one above the other and trusting too much in the arms of flesh errors we are use to having for the past 185 years, the Lord could move on with just a few others to accomplish what He needs. I am sure more warnings will be declared, but let us please remember the numerous failures all through history. There have only been a few successful Zions all through history. But this one, the last one to bring in the millennial period, is extremely important and needs to succeed. We need to cleanse ourselves, seek to obtain gifts of the Spirit of God, seek the will of and the face of God. We need to serve and love everyone in our groups. We need to be prepared to be a part of something so amazing.


Ask the Father if these things are not true. Take a look at the state of the world and the signs of the times! Prophecies have been fulfilled! TODAY IS THE DAY TO BE A PART OF SOMETHING GOD IS DOING! Do not delay. Doubt your own doubts. Search the prophecies on all these matters. Hear the voice of God for yourself. Forget the Lo Here, Lo there, come follow a man declarations. Along the way you can find your Calling and Election made sure and have the visitation from the Lord. The greater principles and blessings of the gospel will be made known after we receive those higher standings before the Lord. For now, lets teach the Doctrines of Christ, and everything else will follow.


Now is the time to become closer to the Father and Son. Repenting is turning towards them and never look back. Join a local assembly of like minded friends. Comfort others, be comforted. Serve and be served. Love and be loved.


Again, if you have not read Denver's books starting with "The Second Comforter", please do so immediately. It is best to read all those books before listening to his 40 Yrs in Mormonism lectures (actually Zion prep courses). Search the scriptures for the prophecies concerning these things. Look at the patterns of how God worked with failed religious groups in the past. See how the prophets in those scriptures connected with God. See what the LDS temples are really trying to teach. Liken and do the same! God bless us all with the strength to succeed in His Work. WE CANNOT FAIL AGAIN!!!

Woe to the Drunkards of Ephraim

 

“Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!” (Isa. 28:1)


“They are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink. For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of a deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.” (Isa. 29:9-10)


“But they also have erred through wine, and ...through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.” Isaiah 28:7-8

“And I will tread down the people in my anger, and I will make them drunk in my fury....” (Isa. 63:6



“The words of Isaiah are not plain unto you, nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy.” (2 Nephi 25:4)


“In the days that the prophecies of Isaiah shall be fulfilled, men shall know of a surety, at the times when they shall come to pass.” (2 Nephi 25:7)



“Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.” (Isa. 28:2)




---> The truth alone (brought by the light of the first fruits/servants/wheat among tares in our day) is enough to bring down the pride and false teachings within the gentile kingdom. It has begun!

God's Church and Fullness of Gospel Vs. Man's

 The "Church of Christ" is another term for followers or congregation. Not the tens of thousands of organized religions made by man.

Written in 2014, re-edited in 2026.

The "Kingdom of God is within you". It is "built without hands". It is "not of this world". The true church we all need to belong to, regardless of whatever church or synagogue we go to on Sunday (or Saturday)... is the Church of God and His Son, it is their Kingdom. Being a part of the true Kingdom requires all of us to connect with the Father (through the Son) personally. It begins with prayer, ...then revelation, then even more like the examples in all our scriptures. They are the roadmap containing examples for all of us to follow... God is no respector of persons and is the same (His gospel is the same). "Ye are the temple of God" the Lord said. So, if we believe the teachings of the Lord and even Moses when he and God were upset for the people not wanting to go talk with God up on the mountain themselves (we want to follow the leader instead! We want the easier route!), becoming a part of Christ's Kingdom in any day or age could occur without anyone else even knowing anything about your membership there (without observation).

We can attempt to build our mortal church's or associations on earth... but if we are not making of our own bodies the "temple of God", if the Kingdom is not within us or rather we are not within it, if we are not connecting with heaven directly ourselves like those in our scriptures show IS POSSIBLE... then our religions are vain. Church's, past prophets, scriptures, ordinances... are all things to point us to what we must each do individually.

This knowledge and teaching of the Kingdom would stop the endless divisions among Mormons and Christians, it would even stop the division and contention between Christians, Muslims and Jews. The devil would lose so much power in the earth if those in the world were to understand these truths!!! I suppose we will continue to claim we are God's only people with God's only approval and carry on the dividing and contending one with another.

Abraham is the Father of all of us, Adam is the Father of all of us. God is the Father of all of us and wants us all, whether Jew, Gentile, Christian, Muslim or any other ism or group of man to become a member of God's Eternal Family forever!

Jews, Muslims, Christians, Mormons, etc... have sought to build up their Kingdoms... isn't it time to build God's at last?

Numbers 11:29

29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!

2 Corinthians 6:16

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

John 18:36

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Luke 17:20

20 ¶And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Luke 17:21

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

2 Peter 1:

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

By the Lord Himself. Not your Priest.

 Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am; - Doctrine and Covenants 93:1 - The Fullness of the gospel that leaders and members still reject

 

Matthew 24:14

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

2 Nephi 9:2

2 That he has spoken unto the Jews, by the mouth of his holy prophets, even from the beginning down, from generation to generation, until the time comes that they shall be restored to the true church and fold of God; when they shall be gathered home to the lands of their inheritance, and shall be established in all their lands of promise.

Has this occurred? Have a people of God been given their final lands of inheritance? Has "the end" come because THIS GOSPEL has been preached and inheritances in Zion first given?

THIS GOSPEL IS THE FULLNESS OF THE GOSPEL, THAT WAS PROPHESIED THAT THE LDS CHURCH IN THE BEGINNING WOULD LOSE BECAUSE OF THEIR POLLUTING OF IT.

Doctrine and Covenants 103:7

7 And by hearkening to observe all the words which I, the Lord their God, shall speak unto them, they shall never cease to prevail until the kingdoms of the world are subdued under my feet, and the earth is given unto the saints, to possess it forever and ever.

Doctrine and Covenants 132:49

49 For I am the Lord thy God, and will be with thee even unto the end of the world, and through all eternity; for verily I seal upon you your exaltation, and prepare a throne for you in the kingdom of my Father, with Abraham your father.

 

"God is not a respecter, we all have the same privilege. Come to God, weary him until he blesses you. We are entitled to the same blessings, Jesus, revelations, Just Men, Angels, etc... Obtain that Holy Spirit of promise - then you can be sealed to Eternal life." Words of Joseph Smith, p15

 

"THE GENIUS OF THE KINGDOM WITH WHICH WE ARE ASSOCIATED IS TO DISSEMINATE KNOWLEDGE THROUGH ALL THE RANKS OF THE PEOPLE, AND TO MAKE EVERY MAN A PROPHET AND EVERY WOMAN A PROPHETESS, THAT THEY MAY UNDERSTAND THE PLANS AND PURPOSES OF GOD." Original Mormonism was different than today, even in it's "in the wilderness" teachings found within Journal of Discourses 12:46

This Gospel has specific meaning. It refers the the fullness of the gospel lost to our modern LDS church we grew up in. We cannot redeem Zion, without first getting it back, in word and in very deed. Just as the Lord stated in D&C.

And the truth, shall set us free...

The latter day Kingdom that comes from the real congregation or Church network in the last days, does not require church buildings. Joseph Smith never built one. The Lord and His Apostles and those in the early Christian days soon after, did not. Their "Churches" the Apostles wrote to, were their like minded friends in another location, having local gatherings in their homes, or conferences in the great outdoors. The LDS Church in it's fallen state, men, were the ones who later copied the buildings seen by observance, copied after the Church and Rome and all it's fallen branches. The "Catholicism of Morminism" as I like to call it. On a side note, regarding corrupt construction of buildings, Brigham was taking tithing and building exotic mansions for his youngest most beautiful wives, for his carnal polygamy, that he taught was required by all to enter the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. I assure you, that is false doctrine, taught by a fallen church president. You need one eternal Queen or King, as shown in the family of Adam and Eve.

The reason the last days Restoration of the Fullness and Kingdom of God, including the requisite Zion people and place remains, because it cannot be torn down like all the others. You can't see it, like the tens of thousands of religions and churches that currently exist.

We have to get back to original records. Original ways. It only gets more corrupt over time.

We have to go back even further, to the days of our Fathers, the Patriarchs. To the fullness and priesthood they held. They too never built such things!

Snufferites?

There is no such thing as a Snufferite.  I recently read a comment about him being the next Jim Harmston (TLC), which is quite humerous to say the least! This just goes to show that people are judging the man without even rightly investigating what he really believes and knows. The last thing he wants is a following of people depending on him like we gentiles have done in the church and other groups. I simply jive with the truths that he shares. The Lord was teaching me through searching and pondering, deeper understanding of things through the Spirit, personal experiences and direct word of the Lord revelation on many things. When I learned about Denver and his books through some friends, I realized that he had already learned many things I was learning on my own. When I quote him or scripture, I am basically using those quotes to say what I want to say. I am a follower of no man. I may listen to men, to see how much truth they may resonate with. I may quote them when I liked what was said. But above all else, I seek the Lord's word to me direct and seek His actual presence. Denver's experiences, or even Joseph Smith's experiences will not personally save me. Only one stands at that gate! When I started reading DS books in 2010, and had 6 months of email conversations with him that year, I was well versed in Church and Fundamentalist histories. I had already investigated Church leader’s statements and spiritual experiences since Brigham Young to our day, and even many break off groups and independents and was sorry to see that the heavenly connection was not like those in my scriptures or Joseph Smith’s. I was still so concerned with getting all the ordinances from the most valid line of mortal priesthood. It was apparent that things are not as they should be EVERYWHERE I WENT or investigated. I saw many saying come here and get what you seek for, but I sought ordinances from a priesthood group or lineage that had more than just ordinances. Simply carrying on ordinances, but lacking the power (C&EMS, greater experiences, talking with the Lord face to face, etc) is not valid in my view. Denver simply redirected much of my energy from searching for man and their ordinances to connecting with the Lord on my own. I had to seek from the Lord that which I sought so hard from man. I already knew that calling and election from the Lord was a necessary ratification and important step, but I also wanted to make sure I had all the necessary ordinances along the way. I argued with Denver in that year on some things. I WANTED to believe that there was a valid priesthood group passing on all the ordinances AND experiencing greater things like in scripture. I didn't like it when he was trying to explain that things have been out of order since 1844. I WANTED to believe that there was a valid Holy Order or group that remained since then. I WANTED to believe that things were out of order since around 1890. But I was searching for people with a real connection with the Lord. I wondered if maybe Denver just had a strong imagination for spiritual things like I have seen others do, or was an imposter or deceived like so many I had already read about and dealt with in the past. I wanted to find people connected with the Lord. He claimed to some experiences in his books, and I questioned him trying to figure out if his experiences were spiritually imagined or actual. I have since learned about others who Denver has helped meet the Lord. I have friends or people I know of who have their calling and election from the Lord and even the face to face presence of the Lord. I have had many amazing (and some unexplainable) experiences and revelations of my own, but wish I was advanced far enough along the path to be sitting at the feet of the Lord like other friends and those in our scriptures.

 

More about my own past…

 

I have been researching Church history intently since 2007 after reading Hugh Nibley's Approaching Zion. I really grew concerned that Zion has fled and we never got it back. 2008 is really the year that I “woke up” to many truths I did not want to think were true. I soon started to realize the doctrinal changes, temple changes, church presidents differing on doctrine, and mainly saw a large difference between prophets and their strong connections with God in the scriptures and Joseph Smith's history, compared to church President's since Joseph. I learned about fullness of priesthood and C&E. I knew that even if we get all the ordinances from man, the climax or final acceptance of us by the Lord is through C&E and standing in His presence.

 

 

I have spent time among fundamentalist groups and independents. I enjoyed my time among them and the research of their histories. I know how break off groups believe and operate. I am not one to sit around and do nothing, if there is something as serious as the fullness of the Gospel and priesthood on earth (I felt the church had lost it long ago), I wanted to find out who truly had it and who enjoy the eternal benefits that come from it. I keep in touch with people and keep up to date with everything related to the restoration. I watch and observe everywhere. I wish we were all seeing eye to eye and had no contention and divisions within the church, and between all the break off groups and independents.

 

Is it the ordinance of baptism that washes you clean or how you take upon you the name of Christ, or is it something you do on your own at the right time? When we are directed to take upon us the HG after baptism by laying on of hands, is the ordinance conveying that gift or is it something to be obtained depending on when the person is actually ready and the Lord grants it? Will a 2 hr ritual performed in an Israelite or LDS temple, or anywhere else, really wash you clean and fully prepare you to be called Kings and Priests to God or endowed with power from on high... or is it showing you a long path that must be followed in order to become such? A man could be baptized or attend an endowment ceremony a 100 times and still never receive what the ordinance is pointing to. There are priestly ordinances and there are the real things. Being washed ceremonially clean in a ritual is instruction on how to actually become clean. Wouldn't it be quite magical if a 2 hr endowment ceremony when I was 19 was what washed me clean from the sins of my generation and endowed me with some power!

 

This I know, that the spiritual ordinances that are represented within the physical ordinances passed on man to man... are the real ones to obtain. Everything the church does (or doesn't do anymore for the members), everything the fundy groups or BFJ line of independent Patriarchs try to carry on or pass on man to man, are ordinances of man that point us to the true ordinances given from the Godhead. They are invitations. The Lord authorized Joseph to keep those invitational ordinances among us. The Lord never told Joseph, as far as I am aware, to tell the Apostles and others at the last charge to stop doing ordinances when he hinted that he (Joseph) was done with the church and put the burden upon them to lead the church. If a man obtains the real things from the Godhead direct, does he still need to obtain the physical ordinances that point to the real ones -from a man? Can a man who obtains the real things from above, do physical ordinances for those he has responsibility for (as directed by His priesthood head - the Lord)? Which priesthood head are we taught to be obedient to in the temple endowment? Who are we trying to connect with in that same endowment? Isn't it obvious that the real second anointing will come from the same Being that the first endowment shows us we must connect with?

 

The Israelites and the Gentiles have sought from the hands of men (rely on the arms of flesh) that which God must give. In their unintentional Idolatry, they were more interested in joining a group of people passing on ordinances in a temple. Thinking those ordinances make you a member of the Kingdom of God. Thinking that all that is needed for priesthood leadership to pass on such ordinances, is to obtain the same ordinances from the leader before who has had them. Thinking that they have the keys of Moses or Joseph Smith to continue making people members of the Kingdom, when they do not actually go there in themselves. If such key holding claimants actually knew what it was really like to enter the kingdom, they would not have continued or continue the false traditions that have plagued Israel and us gentiles and would teach more about the greater things by sharing their own experiences (instead of Joseph Smith’s or prophets past).

 

So, now a few people are actually entering therein. Some are actually obtaining C&E and a fullness, and some communing with Christ face to face. They all seem to have similar understandings and characteristics. All seem to have gone on similar paths. They are trying to help the church leaders and members (and all other groups and independents) turn to these things. To head in the right direction. They are not creating another break off group to join. They are not competing. They are teaching to find the Lord no matter where you are. They have experienced some things, tasted of the real fruit of eternal life, experienced things like Joseph Smith and those in our scriptures and simply want THAT WORK OF GOD to go forth as much as possible. Didn't the Lord want more people "endowed with power from on high" in order to build a Zion that would remain (seeing that the church in Joseph's day failed many times). Wouldn't it be expected that the Lord would want that same thing to happen in our day, before Zion and the millennium comes along? But how many are rejecting that message? Knowingly or unknowingly? How many are saying our leaders or a lineage of Patriarchs have Joseph Smith's keys to save and no one else (lo here lo there)? How many don't want to believe great experiences are being had by lay members because our leaders don’t talk about their own experiences like that? How many think they can’t receive the Lord until they receive all the ordinances offered by priesthood leaders they presume to hold saving keys since the days of Joseph Smith? The same thing which has happened before, continues to happen. Nothing new under the sun as Isaiah states.

 

The Lord is giving all the latter day gentiles a 2nd chance (setting His hand a second time) to help us really see what Joseph Smith was trying to get the members to do. To remember, to really understand what the real work of obtaining the Fullness really entails. To do that which all our ordinances point to. To do that which men in our scriptures have done. That which Joseph Smith, Moses and others have done. The message of the Lord is going forth. Will we continue to reject the message of the Lord carried by those who Know Him, only to continue to rely too much on the ordinances and traditions carried on by the arms of flesh, presuming we have all we need? Or will we "all arise" and seek for more? Will we unite, comfort one another and see that the intent and purpose of the ordinances are to teach and point us to the real things? Sometimes the message of the Lord comes from un-expected places (think Abinidi or Samuel the Lamanite). I believe the Lord is giving our gentile group one final chance to get the fullness back, before starting something new with others if they reject it or don't work hard enough to get it back. If the message is rejected by the church and groups and other independents, are we connected enough with the Savior personally to be selected by Him to be a part of a new group effort that may come about in our day if the Lord determines the times of the gentile opportunity is over? Something that may become the final Zion that will remain into the millennium? The Lord needs a group of like minded friends who see eye to eye, who Know Him personally to help build Zion. Few there be seems to run through the scriptures and my mind. But I wish and hope that is not the case in our day. We should definitely know better than any other people that have lived on this earth. So many records of success and failures in the past. Temple ordinances that teach the true path. The life and history of Joseph Smith. But the pride of man prevents him from becoming like a little child in order to completely open up his mind and heart and rethink some things to progress further. The choice to look into what I am talking about is yours. How hard is it to read some guy's writings who claims real experiences and face to face teaching with Christ, ponder and pray on it? Problem is we are used to following a leader. We think Snuffer wants to become the next break off leader. He doesn't. He is simply sharing with us what the Lord commands Him to do so. From my own personal journey, experiences and revelation, the same message is coming from him that I have have been trying to share with LDS and fundies everywhere. Seek the face of the Lord no matter where you find yourself on Sundays. C&EMS comes along the way. Denver is much more advanced on the ladder than anyone else I know. He has spent years of face time with the Lord and angels. The man is and will perform a great mission among us. Why not point others to hear from that man instead of me. Hopefully the day will come when I too can say that I meet with our Savior face to face. Hopefully you too will do so, whether or not I or anyone else does.