New LDS Remnant Scripture Cannon

 

Scriptures here are online here: http://scriptures.info/

For questions or feedback on the project, email to:
RESTORATIONSCRIPTURES2017@GMAIL.COM


THESE SCRIPTURES INCLUDE  THE NEW JOSEPH SMITH TRANSLATIONS OF THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS!

Update: There is also an app with the scriptures: Restoration Scriptures

A Personal Journey

 

It must be understood, that there is an individual journey that must be gone through, in order to pass all the tests and earn trust and promises (and fulfillment of them) from Heaven. We must understand this, as to not judge too harshly or make the person's journey even more difficult (which of course might actually be a necessity - but there are plenty of people to give this experience, don't let it be YOU). This journey, for obvious reasons, requires hardships to be passed through. It will break you, in order to remake you.  The path (and I speak from experience, knowledge of experiences of friends further along the path than me and scriptural histories) is full of sorrow and will also require each person to go through phases of thinking that you hear the Lord, to thinking maybe you did not, or maybe you were deceived. Messages can come from Above, below, our own thoughts and even from our emotional mind (fears, worries, etc pushing our minds to go a certain direction, or ever altering hard to hear messages coming from Above). Sometimes, in our zeal to hear from Above, we can get hasty and mistake a message from below or from our own mind, as a message from Above. We will likely be deceived by our own thoughts or messages from below. This is part of the journey. God allows His own, to pass through these experiences. We must push through all this, to continue the path. 

As Snuffer once stated, we will come to a point where we must doubt our own doubts. Until we are having one on one, two-way conversations, with Angels, the Lord and even the Father... we are very prone to doing something out of zeal, that may not actually be what Heaven wants of us to actually do. At the same time, it just may be exactly what they want you to choose... in order for you to hear Them, before graduating you further along the Path.

There Is No Avoiding The Suffering and Persecution

When you see someone else going through hardships, the first thought is that they must be going off the path. This is most common with our LDS family and friends when they presume and assume that we are suffering hardships and loneliness, because we must be "falling away" or going "apostate" from the brethren or modern day church. But I have seen it within the awakening LDS Remnant as well. It may very well be a true fact, they are very likely forging through a necessary part of the path. Think of Job. Why else is the book preserved in the Bible? To prove this very point. Next time you think another person (who is actually trying to forge the Path Of Christ) is deceived, and/or suffering because YOU think they may be going off the Path... remember to allow the person to have the experience. If they make it through these experiences, and choose wisely, and trust the Lord to bring them through this passage way, they will make it. Some times we have to sit back, like Father, and let people experience hardships, in order to truly learn what they need to.

Looking Inward

Among the Remnant movement, I have witnessed much contention, false assumptions, serious judgemental comments, devaluation and then defaming of others occurs... which leads to strifes and even division. More than likely, people within the Remnant are going through these very portions of a very personal Path. Many get lost going thru the pass, if you remember Denver's story about the beast trying to get at the person who trusted on the Lord to bring them safely through. 

Remember the Tree of Life dream by Lehi. Hold to that Rod, to partake/receive of the Eternal Promises (fruit). Dare I say you will go through even more false ridicule and mistaken apostasy complaints... to earn Fulfillment of those earlier Promises. Don't think for a minute that the path gets any easier. You might be more confident in what you are doing is the will of the Lord or Father, but the path necessarily remains difficult. You will face persecution from outside the Remnant AND WITHIN. You must push through all that, trusting in the only One who can get you through that pass.

But this path causes a two-edged sword of confusion for bystanders. Those bystanders can either see it for what it truly is, or mock, point fingers, judge, criticize, spread rumors or gossip of YOUR VIEW of the circumstances... and end up another tool of the adversary, who is the Father of Accusations, Lies and Contention. He (and those filled with his "spirit" or thoughts), is allowed to bruise our heel. By God. Yes, even our loving Father and His Son, our Brother (who can also be your Father via adoption). Why we are here.

Yes, it is wise to give loving advice to help others make good decisions. But please be so careful to avoid the judgemental and accusatory stuff! When you blurt out that you cannot stand certain topics found in scripture and/or church history, or that someone from the past or someone that we know today is flat out deceived and falling off the path, and assume that your view is the only correct one, while also harshly judging and condemning... what is more important? That your view is more accurate, or how you are treating that other person?

Prove True And Faithful. Overcome All Things

We must pass through ALL things, in order to obtain the Greater Things. We must prove true and faithful, whether we are the one on the path being mis-judged, or looking upon others on the path and possibly pointing fingers ourselves.

This Gospel stuff is serious. It really is like a two-edged sword that cuts both ways. This mortal life is chock full of chaos, paradoxes and evil. Full of people falsely assuming, persecuting and mocking. And necessarily so. This world is as it is, for a reason. Push through all that. Trust in The Advocate with the Father to take you safely through it all. Yes, He (and Father) WILL allow you to suffer at times, and has to sit back in tears while you do, hoping for the best and lightly nudging you to get through it all. We have to go through certain hardships, to truly learn by experience. For our own good.

If your journey is easy and light, I would have to question exactly what path you think you are on. I won't judge you as bad or avoid you... but I can share a little concern for you.

Cry, But Avoid Causing It

Do not, I repeat, do not find yourself being part of those inflicting more tears and hurt. We of all people, should know better!!! We have experienced persecution, false assumptions and hurt by them already. Those of us who are awakening, are all on different parts of the path. Some have more time and experience. Some further along the path, which I admire and have been praying for all along. Some may be going through some temporary self deception. Some are still trying to Hear that weak signal of revelation coming through. Some are finding themselves in see through walled rooms communicating face to face with Angels or the Lord. Some have gone further still, and meeting our Heavenly Parents sitting on their thrones. No matter what part of the path you find yourself on, help and love and assist others to progress along their path. We must avoid finding out in hindsight that we hindered, caused more tears or worse: caused them to regress.

I have said before, and I don't think of myself as some guru or perfect guy... but what matters most is not who is right or wrong about some topic or whether or not another person is falling off the path (at least you are concerned)... but what matters most is how we treat each other, while eventually coming to see eye to eye on truth. Do not avoid questioning any topic, or discussing what ever topic you want... but do it logically, searching for the truth, leaving out the negative emotions or emotional responses that we are all so quick to blurt out at times.

In Summary

Love God more. Love ourselves and each other more. What more can I say to sum it all up?

A Must Read Post For LDS

 

Sifting the few wheat, from among the many tares...

http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2016/02/how-much-longer-until-church-collapses.html

Polygamy Not Eternal

 Denver has said much about not wanting people to follow or depend too much upon him. I find it interesting that so many are so interested in nearly every thing he writes or states on most every subject, except for his pre-2014 statements on the history of plural marriage (specifically all the posts he wrote on his blog in June 2012). Snuffer plainly explained that Joseph Smith was somehow involved with Plural Marriage. He stated that D&C 132 is a collection of many revelations given to Joseph (with just a few word changes by Brigham Young). Snuffer had previously explained how God does allow some of His people to have plural wives (if commanded, or allowed for those who have sealing authority), and that the un-authorized by God living of plural marriage is an abomination. 

But after 2014, he seems to change his tone on the topic, as if he is trying to allow people to now assume Joseph never lived it and that plural marriage is always an abomination. He states that Joseph did not commit adultery. I agree. For me, I look at every statement Snuffer makes on the topic, and look at it all as a whole. If something contradicts, I ask why. As any one should. All this reminds me of when the Lord said I come not to bring piece, but a sword. A two-edged sword that cuts both ways. Obvioulsy even Denver was learning more truth or untruth on the topic during this year.

On Nov. 1st I emailed and asked Denver what he meant when he stated on his blog October 31st that "God does not justify carnal relations except between one man and his one wife". His reply came a couple hours later. I feel safe only sharing what Denver states publicly. I can say one comment agrees with his pre-2014 statements on the topic and I so would love to share it here. On Nov. 4th he posted a blog and only mentioned one of the many things he had stated to me privately. That one thing was about Cain (should read the seed of Cain) being the first one recorded in the biblical record to live it. He stated in his blog "...the adulterous taking of multiple wives is a pattern originated by Cain and later imitated by Brigham Young". I also agree. Obviously a murderer like cain or his son lamech is not allowed to be one of God's people who can rightly be authorized to live such a system. He said the practice needs to come to an end.

In his recent Mormon History talk found here: http://denversnuffer.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Mormon-History.pdf Snuffer reminds us that he will talk more about some topics as promised. Snuffer had previously told me in person, at the end of the St George Lecture in 2014, that he will explain more about this topic, after I commented to him that he stated some can be allowed or commanded to live as he discussed in his book Passing The Heavenly Gift and on his blog (for heavens sakes actually read what he wrote on the topic in PTHG chapter 6 - his words there also agree with his many blog posts and other lectures). Likely a topic to fully explain when people are ready to actually digest it all properly. More foundational Kingdom teachings need to be understood first? Snuffer not explaining it all now, is enough to help others understand that there is something hard to share on this topic that most are not ready for. If Joseph Smith did not actually live this familial system, just like Abraham, Jacob, Moses and others had... then why not simply say so and clearly settle the case? That explanation seems easy.

 I had some serious questions about Denver's statement on Oct 31st about acceptable relations should only be between a man and his wife. Denver's comment there was more geared to open relations (like the secret adulterous/fornicative spiritual wifery that Bennett and Higby and others were doing) and gay relations. But the one man and one woman comment (along with his other now contradictory, anti-accept plural marriage principle statements the past year) was enough to push me to contact him. In 2010 I had quite a few conversations with him via email. But he told me to read all his books first and stopped replying to me and to other friends later that same year. He was busy with his books and lots of people were starting to contact him. I hadn't received a reply from him in years. I didn't know if I would get a response. My main question to him on Nov. 1st was "Are you saying no one in our day... could be be 132 justified like you use to write prior to 2014?" After getting one response from him, there was one little vague statement that really caught me off guard and caused some serious confusion. That statement, paired with his recent image of God being a man and a woman statements, caused me to take it to the Lord on Nov 1st. An answer came the next day. It was additional information I had not understand on top of the years of research and understanding I already had on the topic. I did not like it. I was hoping I had received false revelation. I was hoping what Denver had been saying publicly and privately to me was incorrect. Hoping there was a mistake intentionally being made by him. I went back to the scriptures in D&C 132 and Jacob ch 2. Certain words seemed to jump out at me and made more sense than ever. I still struggled with the new information.

Well, I wanted further clarification, some confirmation on my possible revelation that was causing me so much confusion. Good or bad for doing so, it didn't matter at the time. I was eager to settle it. I emailed some follow up questions and responses. 2 or 3 emails were sent to him for a couple weeks. No reply. He only made a public post about cain's seed living it in the Bible, and recently gave more subtle little hints, but not much was really expressed in his Mormon History talk... where he again states that more details will be given in the future. That could be a public answer to show he wants to put off answering my private questions, but I really wanted clarification from him on his own reply he had made to me and to see if I was heading towards further light or darkness on the topic. I was still in a bit of mental agony for those three weeks. Too many questions. Too many contradictions with scripture and some of Joseph Smith's words and actions (if and where recorded accurately). Too many buts and what ifs.

On Nov. 22nd, while having a nice spiritual Sunday afternoon, I was again reading chapter 6 of Passing the Heavenly Gift. Denver's use and quoting of the words from D&C 132. I looked at the D&C 132 verses again. I stared out the window as I often do to ponder. I ask. How can some of God's people be allowed to live plural marriage in mortality, if there is only one man and one woman in God's Kingdom (image of God end state of being)? Why would God permit something for time only? Only one Queen out of all of the wives of all those great prophets of the past make it with one King/Man? The other wives who don't make queenship, are recycled into another mortality in another creation cycle and have no claim at all on their man they had hopes and expectations to be with in eternity? Why was Joseph sealing people to himself, even some who were married for time, if they do not go with him in God's Kingdom/eternity? These were the questions for three weeks that were bothering me. How could my new understanding jive with what Abraham, Isaac and Jacob lived? How could my own previous revelations on the matter agree with the new understanding? Something must be amiss. Was I deceived somewhere? Where? Is Denver intending to be contradictory intentionally to keep people from relying too much upon him and not enough on the Lord? 

I ponder some more. Some information and word began flowing. All I can say is that the explanations that went on for some time was one of the biggest relief or ah-hah moments I've had. It made more sense. It relaxed my little mental agony going on for weeks. Boy does Snuffer have some things to explain in the future. Some questions still remain, but I think I got enough to help settle my mind. We have to first understand single salvation vs couple exaltation, sealing authority, raising up seed to the Lord (not polygamy), reflect on C&E promises, realize that some standings in eternity are not "eternal" or forever but in deed more glorious a standing than being recycled into another mortal probation in a different creation period, etc. But also note, that this answer came and was totally against everything I had researched in church history and scriptures. I really thought I had the polygamy topic all figured out. 

Short answer obtained between Nov 2-22, is, plural marriage IS NOT ETERNAL. I was told that Adam and Eve are the example of the Image of God. Of how we are all supposed to be. 1 King and 1 Queen. It was only suffered/reluctantly allowed in mortality by those in the Old Testament, because that was their custom. A custom originally began by the son of Cain. It is not something we want to get caught up with in our day! 

2025 Update:  Joseph Smith was never living polygamy. He was only doing patriarchal family sealings to connect families to his. Brigham Young took what he was doing, to make it appear that Joseph Smith started polygamy in the church, when it was Brigham!



As Snuffer later stated in his paper this week on Mormon History, the answers do come if you keep pondering and asking. Some of the words he used in his paper later, actually matched some of the exact words the Lord had used to explain some things to me on Nov. 22nd.

Answers come. It may take some time to be prepared to see it, and likely will be given here and there, when you are ready to receive it. Many topics take some foundational ideas to first be understood, before really seeing the bigger picture.
 
Anyways, go to the Lord to confirm and for explanations. They come. Through the veil process is a harder ordeal (it really is info given to your spirit from the Spirit which has to trickle down via hard to hear words and enlightenment into your mortal understanding) but I see the wisdom in it. Part of the journey. The mortal man still wishes the Lord would just reveal Himself in the flesh and explain things easily and quickly. Sure would be cool to go up and hang with Moses and other angels like Denver and others have done! Would to God that we were all near or on that level.

It is so much easier to understand a greater view of things, when you peer into eternity for a few minutes and get a fuller explanation. 
 
Sometimes frustration for a time can keep motivating you to keep seeking for answers.
Snuffer could explain the truth on the topic now. I could try to explain what I now understand. Snuffer obviously has reasons not to dive too far into it at this time, otherwise he would have cleared things up. I see the wisdom in not declaring it openly. I am sure there is more to learn, but I am satisfied for now. My increase of intelligence on the matter is comforting. I'm sure there is more to learn, seems there always is! Frustration is not always a bad thing, it can be motivational.
 
I am just another fool on the same trek. A trek I have been on since 2008 after discovering what is really necessary to live in God's Kingdom forever. I have had some revelations through the veil. Had a couple visions. Had very small conversations spiritually, thru the veil with Angels (hey maybe some physical ones unaware). Understandings have increased over time with a little here and a little there. I remember for about 2 yrs being woken up numerous times hearing some kind of scripture-like instruction being given that I wish my mortal mind could diligently receive and remember. Have felt un-explainable glorious things at times and realized later what it meant. I have had some failures. I have also faced evil things that I never thought possible and don't want to discuss. I have seen hell do all they can through weaknesses of others close to me. Have heard great things that I sometimes think cannot be. I still to this day lament and desire with all my heart to be much further along the path than I am, as I am sure most probably feel.
 
But I want and am willing to understand all things. Wading in the deep end is not a problem for me either. I seek and ask always. If I lack intelligent understanding, I want it. If I misunderstand anything, I want correction. If the Lord has something to show me I need to work on, I want to hear it. I don't get offended if people don't yet understand what I do or have a different opinion on a topic (maybe a little bothered at personal opinions expressed that show a lack of research/pondering). I will not stop meeting with you or falsely assume negative things about you for trying to figure out some truth (this has happened to me in our growing LDS remnant community that hopes to one day be a part of Zion).
 
Hold to the Rod, He wants you to weary Him. He wants you to take your questions to Him. If Snuffer or others don't want to share something, go to the Lord and do all to pierce that veil (yes, it sometimes seems like a solid brick wall). Never give up, no matter how hard things in your life become, or how distant you think you are to Him. No matter how confused you are on some topic. Questions and misunderstandings are an opportunity. Problems that the adversary is allowed to cause you while on your trek are also opportunities. Take them as they come, and endure them well. Your salvation and/or exaltation depends on it.
 
To the truth, and nothing but. I care less about the misunderstandings and opinions of men. What I really want is the truth on everything I can, from The Source.
 

Patriarchal Priesthood and the Presiding Patriarch

 

Quote:
"In the Latter Day Saint movement, the Presiding Patriarch (also called Presiding Evangelist, Patriarch over the Church, Patriarch of the Church, or Patriarch to the Church) is a church-wide leadership office within the priesthood. Among the duties of the Presiding Patriarch are to preside in council meetings, ordain other patriarchs, and administer patriarchal blessings.
Originally, the office of Presiding Patriarch was one of the highest and most important offices of the church's priesthood. The role was equated by Joseph Smith, Jr. with Biblical patriarchs from Adam to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and it was expected that the office would descend through lineal succession from father to son. This precedent was set when Hyrum Smith, Joseph's brother, became the second Presiding Patriarch because he was the eldest surviving son of the first Presiding Patriarch, Joseph Smith, Sr. When the office was given to Hyrum, he was given "keys of the patriarchal priesthood over the kingdom of God on earth, even the Church of the Latter Day Saints."[1] Thus, some have argued that Presiding Patriarch is an office of the Patriarchal Priesthood. However, the existence and meaning of the Patriarchal Priesthood is controversial and uncertain."
-From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presiding_Patriarch

This may not be church sourced, but the conclusion is accurate.


Check out the Presiding Patriarch diagram at the link above and note all the times when there was a break, or when there was not Presiding Patriarch, or no presiding patriarch was recognized by the church but was "acting in the office".

This office is the one that is required to be selected from among the Presiding Patriarch's sons, while still alive. This is the Priesthood (Patriarchal) that was suppose to descend from Father to Son. The current Presiding Patriarch must select the most righteous, eldest son (and teachings and ordinances must remain unchanged for heaven to accept it's continuance). It never happened when Hyrum held that office.


The break first in church history occurred with the death of Hyrum in 1844. You can see the next one is not selected by the church until 1845, under BY as church President. Joseph Smith did not select who should follow him as church president either (there was no church president for 3 years after Joseph). Hyrum Smith did not select and bless his Heir as Presiding Patriarch as the scriptures show is the pattern. Neither God nor Hyrum preserved the Presiding Head Patriarch office (or even the office of Church President), though Joseph and Hyrum knew they would be killed if they did not flee with their fellow polygamist(confidentially) friends to the rockies. They both knew it would come to an end, and they in fact chose to leave the church on their own. The church was taken over by the Qof12.  Brigham 3 years later convinced everyone to accept his self elected position to be President of the church. It has been in the wilderness since.

As Emma said, there is no church without Joseph. The Church of Christ above once again began to be separated from the organized church on earth. More than that, there was no more Presiding Patriarch over a growing family of God on earth, and no valid second anointings passing on sealing power or C&E man to man since (despite the leader's attempts to do other wise).

How can God leave with the church the Patriarchal Order, or even sealing power among them (which it was intended to be directed by a Head Patriarch), when these hugely important things are not even understood by them?

How can any church leader or member, or other fundy leader or member who broke off the church well after the time of Hyrum Smith (well after the break), think that valid second anointings have been passed on man to man, which is supposed to only be valid under Patriarchal Priesthood and under the direction of the Presiding Patriarch, when confusion has reigned about the Office and sealing power, plural marriage, law of adoption and many other things since the deaths of Joseph and Hyrum, AND there have been so many breaks between Presiding Patriarch's?????

This is why it is understandable to many that that the church or any of it's polygamist breakoffs do not hold sealing power or the ability to grant a promise of eternal life embodied in the second anointing ordinance, though the church and many fundy groups still fame claim and perform today.

They cannot hold that which they do not understand or have validly passed along in Patriarchal order father to son.

It needs re-stored back to the earth. That which was at the beginning with our Patriarchal Fathers. We need to turn our hearts to them. We need to learn what they had, and seek with all our might to get it back. They need us. We need them.

Adam, Seth, Enos and his sons had it on the earth for a time up until Enoch (whose righteous city was removed) and Shem/Melchizedek who made it through the flood in hopes to bring back the order back to the earth after a major cleansing.

Cain killed Able, hoping that this honorable office would fall upon him, instead of Able. That barred him and his seed from holding it.

It was restored to Abraham, after becoming a prophet, after passing some tests of loyalty, obedience and with much sacrifice, was able to get back what the first line of Patriarch's had on the earth.
The last man to hold it was Ephraim, son of Joseph, son of Jacob/Israel, son of Isaac, son of Abraham.

Pharaoh fame claimed this Patriarchal Priesthood Order. He enslaved the last people who should have maintained what their Father Abraham brought back. He built temples, focused a lot on resurrection which the Patriarchal Priesthood does have a lot to deal with, and intended it to go through to his first born son. Until God proved he was with Moses and God took that son in a final plague. Pharaoh learned the hard way that he did not hold it.

God sent Moses the prophet to free the Hebrews/Israelites from Egyptian slavery, performed amazing miracles to free them, was trying to get them to a promised land where they too could get back the Patriarchal order that had been lost. After being in the wilderness for 40 years, they never make it to that land, and Moses is taken from them, and they are left to themselves.

God sent many prophets trying to turn them back to the original gospel and priesthood order of things. Even Christ Himself came to return things, and was killed. There was not enough success and time to return them to the order of old and re-gather them into a Patriarchal Family of God.

Maybe Lehi in the Book of Mormon was able to restore it and it descended through his sons for a time. Another thing to ponder. Maybe what the sealed portion speaks more of?

God tried to restore it back to the seed of Abraham and Sons, who are also the seed of Adam, in the last days with Joseph Smith Sr. and his son Hyrum Smith, with Joseph Smith the prophet to facilitate and prepare his Father and elder brother to become such. The Lord was trying to get the Patriarchal Priesthood Order that was had at first into their hands, but with the contention, lack of sacrifice by focusing on and finishing the temple, a Patriarchal Family and order was never fully restored. Hyrum was put into the office, but never had a chance to magnify it. These two brothers were taken at the same time, without naming heirs or successors. It has been put on pause.

God is going to restore that which was at first, and He is going to restore it using one like unto Moses, from the house or descendents of those who held it last. Ephraim was supposed to bring it back. They will. But it is going to come from a different part of the "house" than is expected by the majority of modern Mormons today. I am sure hell will do everything to prevent it. Hell has succeeded in times past. Let us not let that happen again.

So, who will?

Go and do the works of Abraham (seek the greater knowledge and things that he had), and bring back that which he was able to bring back to the earth. You first need: Baptism. Teachings of prophets current and past. Baptism of Fire. Revelation. Some priesthood received or acknowledged. Calling and election. Sealing power. Etc. These things can still be had, despite lacking a Presiding Patriarch and having a full Patriarchal Family gathered on earth. It has happened before in Biblical and Book of Mormon history during Patriarchal breaks, it can happen again.

Then Zion.

Then the millennium.

 Where will you be found in the near future?

Matthew 23:37

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

D&C 10:65 For, behold, I will gather them as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if they will not harden their hearts;

Doctrine and Covenants 43:24

O, ye nations of the earth, how often would I have gathered you together as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, but ye would not!

Luke 13:34

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

3 Nephi 10:4-5

O ye people of these great cities which have fallen, who are descendants of Jacob, yea, who are of the house of Israel, how oft have I gathered you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and have nourished you.

And again, how oft would I have gathered you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, yea, O ye people of the house of Israel, who have fallen; yea, O ye people of the house of Israel, ye that dwell at Jerusalem, as ye that have fallen; yea, how oft would I have gathered you as a hen gathereth her chickens, and ye would not.

3 Nephi 10:6

O ye house of Israel whom I have spared, how oft will I gather you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if ye will repent and return unto me with full purpose of heart.

Doctrine and Covenants 29:2

Who will gather his people even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, even as many as will hearken to my voice and humble themselves before me, and call upon me in mighty prayer.

 

Separation of the Wheat from the Tares

 

http://denversnuffer.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Plural-Marriage.pdf

Why the church and fundamentalism has been out of order since Joseph Smith... only the hard hearted and prideful will fail to give it all a proper hearing. Hope that isn't the case with any of the people I know or are acquainted with. Even the mock up or type and shadow of the real thing that was in the church (The Head Patriarch) came to an end. Read the entire article linked to above.

Quoting from the pdf posted above:

"Now even the imitation of it has come to an end, because there is no perpetuation “in honorable remembrance” of the descendants of Hyrum Smith124 occupying the office of Patriar...ch to the Church. There have been many signs given by God that He was about to do something new from the time of the death of Joseph Smith till today. All that was left at the end was for a witness to be appointed, to come to declare, “Now it has come to an end.” In the last talked in the 10 lecture series I said, the witness has now come, and I am he. It has come to an end with something new now begun. One of the signs of it having come to an end was the passing of Eldred Smith. There are many other signs given if you look for them. You can see them all along the way, from the condemnation in 1832, to the expulsion from Missouri, the forced exodus from Nauvoo, the suffering during and following the exodus, the afflictions, judgments and wrath of God at the Saints, their pride, lying, deceit, hypocrisy, murders, priestcrafts, and whoredoms (as Christ foretold), inquisitorial abuse of the population129 once isolated from the US, mass-murders, contradictions in “fundamental” teachings, changes to the ordinances including the temple rites, quest for popularity and centrally-controlled, tightly correlated rejection of teachings—the history of the LDS Church has been a long, downward path. It has walked away from the light, and increasingly embraced darkness. Its members are now ruled by traditions that contradict the scriptures and commandments of God. They are asleep and cannot be awakened. God will now do something new and leave them to make their own way. 

  Emma Smith, Sidney Rigdon and William Marks said without Joseph Smith there was no church. They were right. As soon as Joseph Smith was out of the picture there was a complete overthrow of the church by the quorum of the 12. The quorum of the 12 substituted themselves in the place of the equal distribution of power in the church established by revelation."

Mormon Fundamentalists

 

The Usual Response From the Fundamentalist Minded LDS World

I know, I know... it is hard to hear some of the negative history that some within the "new movement" are sharing about Presidents Brigham Young and John Taylor. Just let me say, I know exactly how you feel. I was once in your shoes back in 2009.

I had spent a couple years researching "greater things" that the church use to live and do. That included Joseph Smith's history, church history and fundamentalist history. I even spent a couple years trying to find a priesthood group who might hold higher priesthood to live higher things. I even thought to be a part of the AUB in 2009, though I knew they too were "out of order" in the connection with heaven among their leadership (I had already seen that disconnect within mainstream Mormonism for over a century, and I was so sad to find other groups claiming that their Priesthood leaders have "all the keys", even more than the church held... only to find that they too suffer from that usual silence from heaven).

My LDS mainstream family and friends were alienating their hearts from me, for me simply trying to find out what happened with our history. I was searching church and fundamentalist histories. I was visiting different groups and places. Investigating all the different forms of Mormonism found in our day. After all, in our mainstream Mormon mindset, those kinds of members who seek, search, knock and ponder deeply... "go off the deep end", or become "apostate", so we falsely judge at times. The only people then welcoming me with open arms were fundamentalist friends. But my search there also ended up not yielding the fruits I was looking for. At this time I did know that no one was a Prophet quite like Joseph Smith was (seriously, look at his fruits), but I at least thought that Brigham and John Taylor were at least close to it. In late 2009 I was told by some new friends I met at Avraham Gileadi classes about Denver Snuffer. I had his first book setting on my shelf. I hadn't read it yet. I went home to begin. I read a few of his books. I began reading his blog. I commented a lot on his blog. I started contacting him via email early in 2010.

I had began to understand that Snuffer saw things being "out of order" clear back to the death of Joseph Smith and Hyrum. He told me there was a break (I can publicly say what he said privately in 2010, because he just declared it publicly in his plural marriage talk in 2015). But up to this point in my journey, I enjoyed some of the historical writings from and about Brigham Young and John Taylor. I mean, Pres Taylor was a stalwart type of man who would stand up for what he thought was true and right, no matter what. He said he would not give up on plural marriage being lived within the church, but that another President would have to do that. He sacrificed and suffered much to do so. Pres. Woodruff said he would never give up on it as well, at least at first. Then later he gives the manifesto as a way to deceptively make the government think that they had given up on it. If you have read Michael Quin's history on that topic: http://www.lds-mormon.com/quinn_polygamy.shtml  - you will soon realize that press release, sometimes considered a "revelation" in mainstream Mormonism, was a red herring... a way to dishonestly try to get Utah territory to become a part of the United States, while still secretly continuing to live "their religion". The U.S. government wanted the Mormons to give up on plural marriage before giving them statehood. The leadership of the Mormons did not want to give up on something that Pres Young had begun within the church as a whole, and started teaching was a mandatory thing to become "one of the Sons of God" or to get into the highest degree of the celestial kingdom. Well, that press release was not in their minds to honor. In actuality, if you read the first manifesto, it really says they would stop doing plural marriages within the confines of the USA (or Utah territory they wanted to be a part of it). The leadership and others kept taking new wives after 1890. But they would have marriages performed secretly or outside the USA. They tried to "meet in the middle". But essentially, it was dishonest and deceptive to do what they did. That is why Pres. J.F. Smith had to issue another manifesto in 1906. There were a few more plural marriages that took place with church leadership approval even after that.

So here we are in 2015. Denver Snuffer and many within the LDS Remnant Community or the "new movement" (or rather the continuation of the restoration that began with Joseph Smith) that is occurring, are now saying that things have been out of order since 1844. I just recently had someone say to me (and I've been told the same before) something to the effect that: I can't accept or be a part of the LDS Remnant, because I don't like what they say about Brigham Young and John Taylor. Hence, the writing of this post.

But what does Snuffer and many within the new movement actually state? I think we allow Brigham Young to speak for himself. We discuss some of the negative history about Brigham's life that most do not want to hear, and we let others come to their own conclusion on the matter. But, you have to actually do some reading and research. What did he do as church President and Politician? What did he think? What were some things Brigham didn't understand, that he should have, if he held the keys to get answers to questions? Why was there a period of 3 years of confusion after the death of Joseph Smith? Have you read Andrew Ehat's BYU thesis paper on that matter yet? If not, you should stop and read it now: http://www.scribd.com/doc/35205295/Joseph-Smith-s-Introduction-of-Temple-Ordinances-and-the-1844-Mormon-Succession-Question-by-Andrew-Ehat#scribd

Let Brigham speak for himself:
"I am not a prophet, nor the son of a prophet…” The Office Journal of Brigham Young, 1858-1863, Book D (Hanna, UT: Collier’s Publishing Co., 2006),

Journal of Discourses, 5:177
"I do not profess to be a Prophet. I never called myself so; but I actually believe I am, because people are all the time telling me that I am."

"I am not going to interpret dreams; for I don’t profess to be such a Prophet as were Joseph Smith and Daniel; but I am a Yankee guesser;” Brigham Young, Sermon, July 26, 1857, JD 5:77.

"I have never particularly desired any man to testify publicly that I am a Prophet; nevertheless, if any man feels joy, in doing this, he shall be blest in it. I have never said that I am not a Prophet; but, if I am not, one thing is certain, I have been very profitable to this people.” Brigham Young, Sermon, October, 7, 1864, JD 10:339.

 "A person was mentioned to-day who did not believe that Brigham Young was a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator. I wish to ask every member of this whole community, if they ever heard him profess to be a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, as Joseph Smith was? . . . Who ordained me to be First President of this Church on earth? I answer, It is the choice of this people, and that is sufficient." Journal of Discourses, 6:320

  "You are now without a prophet present with you in the flesh to guide you; but you are not without apostles . . ." Times and Seasons, 5:618

The brethren testify that brother Brigham is brother Joseph's legal successor. You never heard me say so. I say that I am a good hand to keep the dogs and wolves out of the flock. I do not care a groat who rises up. I do not think anything about being Joseph's successor. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:69.)

Another's retelling of what Brigham told her:
"Later near the end of his life, Susa Young Gates recorded that when asked if he had ever seen the Savior, Brigham responded that he hadn’t, and that he didn’t expect to until he died." Note, 1885, Susa Young Gates Collection, Box 11, Folder 1, Subfolder 1, Utah State Archives, Salt Lake City.

Mary Rollins Lightner, one of Joseph’s wives, wrote about her confrontation with an Angel. She remembered a bit of a conflict with Brigham in the waning days of Nauvoo and wrote that “he Said he would give anything to have seen what I had.”  Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner, Autobiography, in B. Carmon Hardy, ed., Doing the Works of Abraham: Mormon Polygamy: It’s Origin, Practice, and Demise (Norman, OK: Arthur H. Clark Co., 2007), 48.

By their fruits?

"Let me suppose a case. Suppose you found your brother in bed with your wife, and put a javelin through both of them, you would be justified, and they would atone for their sins, and be received into the kingdom of God. I would at once do so in such a case; and under such circumstances, I have no wife whom I love so well that I would not put a javelin through her heart, and I would do it with clean hands.” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, pg. 247, 1856)

"…They are the old hardened sinners, and are almost—if not altogether—past improvement, and are full of hell, and my prayer is that God's indignation may rest upon them, and that He will curse them from the crown of their heads to the soles of their feet. I say, that there are men and women that I would advise to go to the President immediately, and ask him to appoint a committee to attend to their case; and then let a place be selected, and let that committee shed their blood… I would ask how many covenant breakers there are in this city and in this kingdom. I believe that there are a great many; and if they are covenant breakers we need a place designated, where we can shed their blood… They are a perfect nuisance, and I want them cut off, and the sooner it is done the better.” (J.M. Grant, First Presidency, Journal of Discourses vol. 4: 219-220 Sept. 21,1856 SLC, Utah)"

Ok, so you get the picture. Above is what Brigham Young said about himself. There are a couple quotes of what others said Brigham stated to them. If you want to make more of Brigham than what he himself said of himself, that is your prerogative I suppose.

So, I came across quotes like these on my own. I knew none of the LDS Presidents after Joseph were prophets like he was. Then in 2012, Snuffer wrote this for a sunstone presentation. It is definitely worth the read. Full of quotes and history of the time Brigham Young was at the head of the church and territory: http://denversnuffer.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/BrighamYoungsTelestialKingdomRevised.pdf

In 2012, Denver published Passing the Heavenly Gift (search on Amazon.com), which contains some more hard to hear history that occurred under Brigham's  leadership. You can say that I had a very hard time dealing with some of this history, as I once had thought that "the break" or that things were "out of order" since 1890, after Pres. Taylor.


Another good read about why things are out of order since Joseph, and where Denver states the break is the break in the Patriarchal Order that God was trying to restore with Joseph Smith, read Denver's Plural Marriage talk here: http://denversnuffer.com/wp/download/Plural_Marriage.mp3.zip

Be sure to take note of Brigham's dream about Joseph Smith in Denver's talk above. Brigham misunderstood the Law Of Adoption as a whole. Others were asking him what to do with that principle. Brigham has a dream of meeting Joseph Smith. In that dream Brigham ask's Joseph what to do, and Joseph doesn't answer his question, but just says to just follow the spirit. Here Brigham has a question. He doesn't know what to say on it. Even in his dream, and let's suppose it is inspired, then Joseph Smith is avoiding answering his question, precisely because not even Brigham Young is on par enough to receive the answer.

Also consider the history about Brigham making plural marriage a public church requirement. Remember, Joseph Smith was in fact sealing wives to himself (though we have no proof of him having relations that produced offspring with his sealed plural wives), and allowing very few others to live it as well. It was for a tight knit group within the church, but not a church wide thing to live in Joseph's day. If God actually wanted them to keep this going within the church, wouldn't He have made a way for their escape, for it to remain? Wouldn't God had protected their "religious right" and kept it in the church if it was as important as Brigham stated?

Though this history is hard to read or hear, it is necessary to understand why things have been out of order since Joseph Smith, Jr.

Ok, what about Pres. Taylor and Woodruff?

Well, if things were out of order since Joseph left the church to themselves, maybe it got back in order somewhere after Brigham? I wish that was the case.

Now, didn't the Lord state that He would fight their battles, if they were in the right way? Pres. Taylor spent a lot of time defending this principle. The familiar picture of him and the presidency in jailbird stripes comes to mind. The feds were threatening to not give them statehood. Taylor stood up for what he thought was right. He never gave in to their "enemies".

At first, Pres. Woodruff gives a couple revelations saying that they should never give up on this principle. Later we here him attending a meeting at the Bohemian Grove.  Probably invited their by other elite. You can search that for yourself, it is still going on today in CA. Presidents and wealthy still attend it. They don't know what their ritual is actually teaching them, but they do participate. Alex Jones exposed it all on youtube and you can search it there. Woodruff at first said they would never give up on it. But the USA pressured him and the other leaders enough to make them afraid and to give in to that manipulative pressure. They were afraid of having their new buildings and new temples taken away from them by the feds if they did not give it up. So they try to fake it, hoping they can get their statehood and openly live plural marriage again later. The plan didn't work. Plural marriage was later completely removed from the church and it has never been brought back since. That same church began to reject members who didn't want to give it up just like the leaders had formerly done, and after being taught for decades that is was required for exaltation. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Now ask yourself, why would God allow this to be removed from the Church, if Pres. Woodruff or Pres. J.F. Smith held the keys? Didn't the Lord declare that He would fight their battles? Why did Pres. Brigham Young have to ponder and the have a dream were Joseph wouldn't even answer him there? If our President's automatically get to hold "the Keys", what are they? Pres. Taylor tried to put together a "Book of Keys", trying to figure out what they are. Do they magically get them because we sustain them as our Priesthood Presidents? What about the key to ask and receive answers? Surely they were asking, and surely they were not receiving like the Prophet Joseph did, or like the many that fill our scriptures. It looks to me that the Lord never wanted to keep plural marriage alive, let alone make it a church requirement for highest exaltation. If there was a break, and men go on claiming to hold all the keys that Joseph held, while also understanding that they are not even close to being connected with God like he was... would God want this not very-well understood principle made as a church wide program? Could it be that God actually wanted it to end the way it was being practiced, and used the government to eradicate before more of a mess could be made?

Keep looking into church history after the manifestos. Keep looking into Mormon fundamentalist history since short creek. Things do not get any better. The whole thing just gets more confusing. More division is the usual course to so much confusion, being tossed to and fro. You have the plural marriage confusion. You have current LDS leaders going against what Pres. Brigham Young said about blacks never be able to hold priesthood, and the current leadership saying that they do not accept anyone who says such things. We have continued changes, doctrines and removals in LDS temple ordinances. Here we are today, confusion still reigns, while so many still claim to hold the only valid all powerful Keys over any other LDS group.

So, if you have read all of these statements from history, and read all of the articles linked to in this blog post... has your view changed? Can you now consider what some of us have already considered, and see what we see? If not, please do some more research and praying on the matter and get back with me:)


Denver Snuffer explains some good things on priesthood, plural marriage and the Patriarchal Order in his plural marriage talk linked to above (and his blog and in Passing the Heavenly Gift). This topic has been quite controversial and messy since Joseph Smith... but there is an answer as to why things have been out or order and so confusing. There is always an explanation, a reason. Our great Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (and others) lived plurality and did raise children through all of their wives. Joseph Smith did state that he intended to bring back all that the priesthood of the past had, as part of the restoration of all things. Surely an interesting topic that has plagued Mormonism, Judaism and others since it was lived by those in our Old Testament.


I love the Lord. I love what He was trying to restore with Joseph Smith and prophets in our scriptures. Though my journey was mentally painful at times, the answers did come. I was patient. I sought the truth above my own pre-conceived understandings. I was and still am, a true seeker of truth. I know the Lord can come through for you and answer any question you may have. It may take some time, some underlying necessary fore knowledge, and then some more time and explanation... but seek and you shall find.

So, consider and then get back with me. Let me know when we can setup your baptism to show your faith in the continued work of the Father in our day, ok? :)

To the truth and nothing but,